I go back and forth. For the most part, I don’t cheat family on my time. My church has services on Saturday and Sunday both, three services total, and this means although those days are normally not heavy, I do have only one full day off a week, which is Monday. I’m expected to work about the same number of hours per week as Andy, and we do place a very high value on family here. (We call it the “hurry home” value...)

BUT… Although I’m okay with the amount of time (and I don’t lose time in traffic, I work only 8 minutes from my home) I think I am cheating my family with regard to ENERGY. (Anybody remember Jack Groppel’s talk last year or the year before at the Summit?) I need to save a lot of my best energy for family and home, and I don’t think I’m doing that. I’ve got some plans to make that happen, however…

But on the time front, Andy has really woken me up (and the talk by Wayne Cordeiro REALLY finished Andy’s talk. I can’t separate them.) I need to find a way to get one or two full weekends off per month (my wife works mon-friday, so we don’t always get the same time off work, we don’t have kids yet, but we are adopting in the near future...)

Also… if you notice, it’s Monday, and I’m posting on MMI… I’m supposed to be not working. So this is the end of my post----- (see ya tomorrow… I need to start leaving this stupid computer at the office!)

I really appreciated Andy’s talk.  I’ve done the 7 day a week stuff inn the past to the detriment of my family.  I still struggle with giving my family the appropriate amount of time they deserve and need. 

I wish Andy would have talked a bit more about how they manage the 45 hours with staff.  Also, it would have been helpful for him to drill down on how he and his staff do volunteerism.  We have great unpaid servants in our churches who work 45 hours a week and then volunteer 5-10 hours weekly.  My quandry: should we work at least 50-55 hours per week at the church to honor their commitment?  Are we as staff “expected” to volunteer outside the church 5-10 hours a week?

Just some thoughts.

I would agree! This was the best session of the already stellar conference. It challenged the way I look at ministry and my family. Good thing I’m learning this early in my ministry and marriage (both 3 years old).

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE… my family has suffered in the past becuase of my inability to say “NO’ - I had to finally reach a point where I put the needs of my family FIRST.

The saddest part of this is that in most churches - the leadership and the people don’t understand that - and getting them to the place where they do is difficult at least.

I believe that they are still stuck in the old school mentality that the pastor is their chaplian - who should be at their beck and call. Some will never get past it but I do believe that it is an issue that must be forced - a place where the pastor must take a hard and fast stance - while at the same time teaching the church leadership the “why” of it. There will always be those who don’t like it, you can’t change that… but they won’t be there when you are old and gray to hold your hand and rock with into the sunset.  DONT SACRIFICE YOUR FAMILY ON THE ALTAR OF CHURCH… Force the issue and don’t take no for an answer. JUST DO IT!

I also loved Andy’s talk on “cheating”. I applied much of it to my two worlds as a woman, wife and mom who works full time for the church.
I change my work schedule for the summer when my teens are home more. I go in much earlier and go home by noon which is when they want to rock and roll.
I also have perfected napping so I can also stay up later to be involved with them and their friends.
One of the things I love about my job is the ability to flex my time with the changing needs of my family, always remembering as Wayne Cordeiro said that they are my ministry first.

Andy’s talk did not address the life situations of single folks in full time ministry, who are even more vulnerable to “If I don’t, it won’t” mentality and feel guilty leaving early without a family at home. It has made me sensitive to the singles on my staff and team to help make sure they are not getting overwhelmed.

I was at the Summit and loved Andy’s talk.  I have a propensity to workaholism so I know what he says is important and felt some conviction.

But I have the same issues as Brian and MPM.  None of our churches could (or should) run without hours of work from dedicated volunteers.  If Stanley’s 45 hours is office hours then it makes sense.  But I don’t feel good about counting every hour of ministry activity into my maximum hours worked when most volunteers are on overtime every time the do anything related to ministry.  I bristle when church staff get to take an extra day off because we’ve had some big event that took hundreds of volunteer hours.  The volunteers who worked arm in arm with us all weekend don’t get to take an extra day off. 

Occasionally I’ve had staff team-mates who count devotions and school work (bible college or seminary) as work hours.  I’m not sure about that either.  The average Joe has to make time for the Lord and his job.  If we can’t, how can we challenge them to?

Wendi

Andy is such a remarkable leader, speaker, pastor, etc. I just finished one of his books, “The Best Question Ever.” There is great wisdom in his writings.

What things have you done to make family time a priority (or to make more time for family time)?

My wife and I make Friday nights a priority with the kids. Friday’s are family movie night. With a little help from Netflix and my wife making some excellent homemade popcorn, Friday nights have become a real blessing. Also, my wife and I try to make at least one date night per month, sometimes more often.

What’s the #1 leadership decision you’ve ever made?

Saying “no” to a few church activities, leadership positions, etc.

I love Andy! He is a great leader in our generation. His church merely gives him a platform. He was great even back when he was a (though reluctant)youth pastor. He lives out his beliefs. In regards to a work week he hits the nail on the head. YS has a piece called diary of a mad housewife that was similar in a warning. I remember Andy speaking in the National Youth Specialties convention(many years ago). He spoke on this commitment with such transparency it was moving. He will continually shape me personally and my ministry. I have tried to appreciate him via emails. I also want to “give a shout out” on the blog too. I recommend his bit (series) on prayer too.  He’s good people. Thanks ANDY!
-Mike

Volunteers vs. Staff

This may belong somewhere else, but I noticed a few people remarking on it, so I thought I’d add my 2 cents.  One of the things to consider is that when a volunteer walks into the church after a 40 hour work week, it’s different for them.  It’s different people, different atmosphere, different responsibilities.  For a staff member, it can be the same things they’ve dealt with all week.  The same people, the same issues, the same responsibilities, the same fires to put out.  I choose to volunteer in an area that is COMPLETELY separate from the department I work in.  I have found a place to serve that allows me the pleasure of volunteering without getting bogged down in my day-to-day staff position.

This works for me as I work in a mega church.  But it may not work in a church with a smaller staff.

Does anyone remember hearing or reading “that the ministry is the hardest profession in the world in which to succeed and the easiest profession in which to get by”? At age 25, just out of seminary, appointed to a “vacant lot” to start a new UMC, I made the mistake of working 70-80 hours per week for 19 years.  Then I resigned from the ministry , and I was totally burned out.  Truth be told I did not want to be preceived as one who just got by, i.e. “the easiest profession ."While my family survived and today we remain strong (age 76), I can look back and totally agree with Andy Stanely. The “key” has to be balance between ministry (work), family, study, rest and silence,and these words apply to laity as well as clergy. Both laity and clergy are the priesthood.

The problem with “volunteer hours” is that it seems to ignore the fact that every believer is a minister in in God’s kingdom!  The way I work it is that I do my forty hours trying to focus on what gives me the biggest bang for my time spent.  I work in a mega church, so I get the luxury of staying focused on my strengths [most of the time ;O) ] I try to stick to specific office hours and then I expect to do what my volunteers do - give at least five hours beyond my “work hours.” I never seem to have trouble doing 50 hours of work each week (including my volunteer time.) But, I do not include hanging out with my friends in that time. That is what many of the volunteers that I lead become to me - friends.  We are family.  We care for each other, support each other, show up when something goes wrong.  We do life together. All of my life is lived in service to God.  I don’t have “time off” and “time on.” Instead, I have time to be a servant.  If I go to the beach to hang out and relax, I am on call and God often provides someone who needs to be cared for and given the good news. 
As I read this blog, I keep thinking about how Jesus “went to a quiet place and spent the night in prayer as was his custom.” I wonder if he counted that as ministry time.  I don’t think so.  I think he was getting refueled so that he could do it all again the next day!  I think he new that his time was limited so he focused on the essentials.  When he left, there were still sick people in Palestine!  He did not do everything.  He poured himself into others - some of them did not continue with him - but he still invested in them anyway!  I am increasingly blessed as I focus on those areas where God has made me strong.  I can do other things, but those things will suck me dry, because they do not flow out of how God has wired me.  When I work in those areas, I really do need to take time away.  When I work in the areas where I am gifted, I get filled up, not drained.  My advice is for each of us to keep seeking that sweet spot where God has gifted us and do as much of that as we can.  We will get the most return for our labor which means the kingdom is getting our best.  When we have to work in areas that are not “us” we are just being reminded that a servant does not always get to do just what he wants and likes.

I encourage you to get your Bible out and read Luke 17:7-10.  It is a good attitude check for me.

Blessings,

Dave

I appreciated what Andy had to say, though I wish he had addressed single people---who do we cheat if we over-work in ministry?

I think 45 hours plus Sunday is a reasonable expectation, but the reality is that implementing that limit with require both additional pastoral staff and volunteer hours OR a cut-back in ministry programming. It’s a lose-lose situation when a pastor decides to reduce work hours but tries to maintain the current level of ministry the church is doing. And hiring additional staff may mean that the head pastor’s salary will be affected. Are pastors willing to make less in order to have more time at home? I sure don’t know of anyone in the secular workplace who puts in a 45 hour week and brings home more than $50K in our city.

Nancy - no disrespect… but the area I am in people in the secular put in 65+ hours a week and make $140K+ and expect the pastor to put in the same 65+ hours only at half the pay… while paying the same mortgage rates… not that we do it for the money… but the pastors are already doing it for less money… so the only thing left is “comp time” - one MUST balance the church’s expectations versus the family’s needs.  I dont believe it is a “lose-lose” - It is lose lose if the pastor is so burnt that they cannot function - and there by become cynical and short fused… it may just force the church to actually DO ministry and minister to each other (bearing one anothers burdens) ----- Dan Moore is correct - the CHURCH are the ones who “DO” the ministry… the pastor (and pastor staff) are to equip the church to do that.
I do speak of this from experience of trying to match the churches expectations and it really cannot be done… there by “Please God” because with Him there is only one opinion - with the church there are as many opinions as there are members. I found out that trying to please God is actaully much easier…
A pastor who can learn to “self-care” and balance the demands will be better able to serve the church they are in… just my two cents